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This is a breaking podcast. We're premiering a new paradigm for quantizing 4D gravity here first, without strings. Neil Turok — inaugural Higgs Chair at Edinburgh, former director of Perimeter Institute, and 2026 Fellow of the Royal Society — believes quantum gravity may not require strings, extra dimensions, or a multiverse. The key: a 1970s theory called quadratic gravity, long abandoned over two seemingly fatal problems. Turok and Bateman argue both problems dissolve — one by reinterpreting a classical instability as ordinary gravitational expansion, the other by a subtle tweak to the Born rule that allows quantum states of negative norm without ever producing negative probabilities. One quiet assumption, Turok argues, underpins decades of string theory's necessity. Drop it, and the whole case for a multiverse unravels. Neil graciously gave me a sneak peek at his and his PhD student Sam Bateman's new research. Bleeding edge! I hope you enjoy.
TIMESTAMPS:
- 00:00:00 - Quadratic Gravity Emergence
- 00:05:03 - Renormalization and Asymptotic Freedom
- 00:10:57 - Ghosts and Krein Spaces
- 00:16:00 - Generalizing the Born Rule
- 00:23:27 - Ostrogradsky Instability Reinterpreted
- 00:31:29 - UV Completeness and QCD
- 00:38:21 - Higgs Compositeness and Hierarchy
- 00:43:58 - CPT Symmetric Universe Minimalism
- 00:52:54 - The 36 Fields Mystery
- 01:00:10 - Orthodoxy vs. Revolutionary Ideas
- 01:06:39 - Gravitational Entropy and Smoothness
- 01:16:14 - Multiverse Measure Problem
- 01:23:05 - Theoretical Physics Health
- 01:30:07 - Sam Bateman’s Breakthrough
- 01:43:33 - Philosophy of Cosmology
LINKS MENTIONED:
- Neil's Papers:
https://inspirehep.net/authors/985402
- Renormalization of Higher-Derivative Quantum Gravity [Paper]:
https://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.16.953
- Quadratic Gravity:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratic_gravity
- Asymptotic Freedom in Higher-Derivative Quantum Gravity [Paper]:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0370269385902485
- Ostrogradsky's Theorem:
http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Ostrogradsky's_theorem_on_Hamiltonian_instability
- Krein Space:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefinite_inner_product_space
- CPT-Symmetric Universe [Paper]:
https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.08928
- Pathologies of Dimension-Zero Scalar Fields [Paper]:
https://arxiv.org/abs/2603.05683
- No-Ghost Theorem for Pais-Uhlenbeck Oscillator [Paper]:
https://arxiv.org/abs/0706.0207
- Cancelling the Vacuum Energy [Paper]:
https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.06258
- Gravitational Entropy [Paper]:
https://arxiv.org/abs/2201.07279
- Neil's Lecture:
https://pirsa.org/15100070
- Neil Turok on the Big Bang [TOE]:
https://youtu.be/ZUp9x44N3uE
- Neil Turok on Black Holes [TOE]:
https://youtu.be/zNZCa1pVE20
- Carlo Rovelli [TOE]:
https://youtu.be/hF4SAketEHY
- Leonard Susskind [TOE]:
https://youtu.be/2p_Hlm6aCok
- Jacob Barandes [TOE]:
https://youtu.be/wrUvtqr4wOs
- Geoffrey Hinton [TOE]:
https://youtu.be/b_DUft-BdIE
- Harvey Friedman [TOE]:
https://youtu.be/gx3uKT1qJvY
- Scott Aaronson [TOE]:
https://youtu.be/1ZpGCQoL2Rk
- David Deutsch [TOE]:
https://youtu.be/vKeWv-cdWkM
- Peter Woit & Joseph Conlon [TOE]:
https://youtu.be/fAaXk_WoQqQ
More links at
https://curtjaimungal.substack.com
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Guests do not pay to appear. #science

Source: © Curt Jaimungal, hosted on © YouTube

I personally subscribe to The Economist. TOE listeners get 35% off the annual subscription. No other podcast has this!
https://economist.com/TOE
FOLLOW:
- Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e
- Substack:
https://curtjaimungal.substack.com/subscribe
- Twitter:
https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt
- Discord Invite:
https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs
- Crypto:
https://nowpayments.io/donation/TOE
- PayPal:
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LINKS MENTIONED:
Guests do not pay to appear. #science

Source: © Curt Jaimungal, hosted on © YouTube

Does the universe experience separation, or is it all one mind? Exploring the profound idea that our perceived individual consciousness might be an illusion, a fractal of a greater whole. #Consciousness #Philosophy #Metaphysics #Mindfulness #QuantumPhysics Full podcast with Bernardo Kastrup:
https://youtu.be/lAB21FAXCDE

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Exploring the different types of 'Theories of Everything' (TOEs), from quantum gravity to consciousness and even personal preferences like liking Taco Bell. What truly defines a theory of everything? #TheoryOfEverything #Physics #ScienceExplained #QuantumGravity #Philosophy Full Podcast with Curt Jaimungal:
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Materialism fails to explain experience, relying on smoke screens and false appeals to the unknown. True understanding comes from science, which predicts nature's behavior, not from a metaphysical commitment to non-mental reality. #Materialism #Science #Philosophy #Consciousness #Metaphysics Full podcast with Bernardo Kastrup:
https://youtu.be/lAB21FAXCDE

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Science theorizes, but doesn't claim literal truth. Useful fictions like the Higgs boson predict behavior and drive technology. Don't mistake predictive models for reality. #ScienceExplained #PhilosophyOfScience #HiggsBoson #ScientificMethod Full podcast with Bernardo Kastrup:
https://youtu.be/lAB21FAXCDE

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Bridging the gap between the theory of the small (quantum field theory) and the theory of the large (general relativity) is the ultimate challenge in physics. Discover the concept of quantum gravity. #QuantumGravity #Physics #ScienceExplained #TheoryOfEverything Full Podcast with Curt Jaimungal:
https://youtu.be/K_jCtpQgqB0

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Simulating brain patterns for consciousness? It's like a computer kidney peeing on your desk. We abandon plausibility for these 'Pinocchio theories' of AI sentience. #AI #Consciousness #Philosophy #TechDebate #Kurzweil Full podcast with Bernardo Kastrup:
https://youtu.be/lAB21FAXCDE

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Is it more courageous to chastise yourself or to let life flow through you? Discover the vital distinction between taking yourself too seriously and truly embracing life's seriousness. #LifeLessons #SelfImprovement #Philosophy #Mindfulness Full podcast with Bernardo Kastrup:
https://youtu.be/lAB21FAXCDE

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Mastering a skill then forgetting it? It's not about losing knowledge, but about gaining the 'gist.' Discover why a solid core isn't always best and how birds see the clouds. #Gist #Learning #Knowledge #Mindset #Cognition Full Podcast with Curt Jaimungal:
https://youtu.be/K_jCtpQgqB0

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Could your mind be like multiple personalities dreaming? Research shows dissociative identity disorder patients can share dreams, seeing alters as avatars. This hints at mind's fundamental nature, challenging matter's dominance. When mental processes separate, dissociation occurs, even causing literal blindness. But another alter can restore sight and brain activity. #DissociativeIdentityDisorder #MindBodyConnection #Consciousness #Neuroscience #Psychology Full podcast with Bernardo Kastrup:
https://youtu.be/lAB21FAXCDE

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The greatest human fear: the unknown after death. Materialism has removed this fear, liberating us from ancient control mechanisms. What awaits us? We don't know, and that's where comfort lies. #Death #Philosophy #Existentialism #Afterlife #Fear Full podcast with Bernardo Kastrup:
https://youtu.be/lAB21FAXCDE
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Beyond the hard problem, discover gaps in how we derive 'ought' from 'is,' infer data to formalism, and even understand the wave function itself. What gives life meaning in a seemingly meaningless world? #Philosophy #Consciousness #MeaningOfLife #Science #Epistemology Full Podcast with Curt Jaimungal:
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Is consciousness an illusion? Saying so directly contradicts experience itself. If any experience exists, the 'hard problem' remains. Dennett's search for a solution might be a walk in a hall of mirrors, driven by ego and commitment to a narrative, making true revolutions rare. #Consciousness #Philosophy #HardProblem #Psychology #Debate Full podcast with Bernardo Kastrup:
https://youtu.be/lAB21FAXCDE
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The possibility of our reality being a simulation is explored. If we can create complex worlds with intelligent agents, could we already be in one? Pain is pain, love is love, even in a game. #SimulationTheory #AI #Philosophy #VirtualReality Full podcast with Dr. Roman Yampolskiy:
https://youtu.be/TgFmA-Qwsek
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Source: © Curt Jaimungal, hosted on © YouTube